Quest Magazine

Printed in the   Fall 2025  issue of Quest magazine. 
Citation: Karagulla, Shafica & van Gelder Kunz, Dora  "The Chakras and the Human Energy Fields"   Quest 113:4, pg 16-23

by Shafica Karagulla, MD and Dora van Gelder Kunz

Shafica Karagulla, MD, and Dora van Gelder Kunz teamed up to produce a study, The Chakras and the Human Energy Fields, published by Quest Books in 1989. Dr. Karagulla studied Dora's ability to clairvoyantly diagnose the disease process in numerous case histories.

Shafica Karagulla (1914‒86) was a psychiatrist and surgeon noted for her research into abnormal mental states and higher sense perception. She died in a tragic accident before the book was completed.

Dora van Gelder Kunz (1904‒99) was a noted clairvoyant who developed the healing modality called Therapeutic Touch with Dolores Krieger. She was president of the Theosophical Society in America from 1975 to 1987. She completed this book with the assistance of Emily Sellon.

This excerpt from The Chakras and the Human Energy Fields was published in The Quest, spring 1989.

Throughout the long evolutionary journey of life on this planet, living forms have developed within the narrow constraints set by nature. Like the caterpillar wrapped in its cocoon, man’s experience has been limited to the range of his five senses. The conscious perceiver and interpreter of his physical environment, he has been largely unaware of the presence of other dimensions of reality which lay all about him. This is particularly true of modern man.

But today we recognize that the sensed world is far from being the only “real” domain of experience, and that in fact our senses merely deliver impressions to us that the mind/brain interprets according to its own inner vision. Moreover, the narrow boundaries of the sensed world are crumbling, as our knowledge expands to include quantum reality as well as the information bombarding us from outer space. The possibility of extending our understanding into realms long hidden from us by the limitations of the senses is opening an ever vaster world to us—a world which, far from being remote, is now seen to lie all around us, and even to be part of our own being.

As we seek to explore the world of finer perceptions, a number of questions arise. What are the mechanisms for perceiving the hidden world which lies beyond the reach of our senses? Can we develop the capacity and use it creatively and constructively?

At this stage of inquiry we are very much in the position of the blind men in the parable, each of whom tried to describe an elephant in terms of that portion of the animal he was able to grasp. Similarly, in a village of 100 inhabitants, if ninety-eight were color-blind, we could expect them to be very skeptical of the descriptions of the remaining two people who perceived the full spectrum of prismatic colors. In fact, they probably would be sure that these two were visionaries, or story telling, or just hallucinating. However, if over a period of time 20 percent of the inhabitants began to see the whole spectrum, the rest might begin to concede the possibility that it might exist, even though beyond their own perception. This story is somewhat analogous to the present state of affairs vis-à-vis extrasensory perception.

There are many signs that the next great adventure for humanity will take place in the realm of consciousness, and that a whole range of yet unexplored possibilities awaits us. These raise many unanswered questions. What are the boundaries of the self? Where do self and environment begin and end? Can we develop reliable mechanisms for discovering these subtle interrelationships?

Just as the five physical senses give us access to a certain range of physical reality, so the higher senses allow us to perceive elements of the supersensory world. Higher sense perception includes clairvoyance, which means “clear seeing,” and usually refers to the ability to perceive the vital and/or the emotional field. Because such perceptions have seemed to be both exotic and idiosyncratic (since they are experienced by the few), today’s scientists and researchers have never tried in any systematic way to explore and understand the mechanisms which permit such phenomena to exist. In a culture committed to the scientific method, this neglect would appear to stem from a fundamental prejudice or misconception.

Scientists have held that it lies outside the province of their discipline to investigate claims that it is possible to perceive states of matter subtler than the physical. For this reason, the painstaking work of J.B. Rhine in the field of telepathy and clairvoyance had little impact upon the scientific community. But physicists concerned with quantum physical reality are investigating probabilities and indeterminacies which are far removed from the so-called facts of our gross physical world, and can only be “observed” through their effects. Is it not also likely that if we were to extend our explorations into the subtler aspects of that world, we might find these dimensions just as lawful, just as amenable to study and understanding, as the complex and ambiguous world of quantum reality?

Nevertheless, some research is going forward in this area, using man himself as the sensor, such as the practice of healing methods like Therapeutic Touch. Sensitives who can observe the interactions of vitality, emotion, and thought processes remove these interactions from the realm of the purely subjective. Their observations, however, differ in degree, in clarity, and in comprehension. Some of them perceive only the etheric or life field; others perceive both the field and the etheric centers (chakras) which are a key element in the basic pattern that characterizes man, both as an individual personality and as a member of the human species. Some clairvoyants see the astral or emotional field rather than the etheric. Such psychics do not usually perceive the chakras within the emotional field unless they have been trained to do so, or have great natural gifts. The mental field and its centers are seen only by those with a highly developed type of specialized clairvoyance.

Thus far, breakthroughs into these levels of reality have met with a great deal of confusion and misunderstanding. The result has been a flood of “psychic” literature of very uneven quality and credibility, all claiming to furnish accurate information about the supersensory dimensions of human experience. Unfortunately many people, bored and dissatisfied with the present-day scene and its lack of values, accept these accounts uncritically. Such enthusiasts often plunge into personal experimentation without regard for the pitfalls that could be encountered in entering any new area of experience without previous knowledge or preparation. Like the ability to walk or fly, such capacities must be developed. This takes time, patience, and much more effort than those who are eager for new sensations wish to expend. Thus interest in the so-called psychic world often becomes more of an escape from the constraints of everyday life than a serious search for new knowledge.

This situation does not change the fact that many people today are exhibiting various degrees of paranormal ability, including clairvoyance, clairaudience, precognition, telepathy, psychometry, dowsing, and healing. It is beginning to look as though these abilities are emergent, and may eventually become a normal part of human consciousness. If we accept the concept that evolution is a learning process, we realize that living systems are continually developing new capacities for a creative response to their environment. If this is so, why should not human beings begin to extend their perception to supersensory levels, and develop the ability to explore more encompassing dimen­sions of reality?

The first requirement for the development of higher sense perception is a recognition that the supersensory realms are not opened up “magically,” but are regulated by natural laws just as precise as those which govern the physical world. If they are to become known to us, we must define more precisely the ranges of supersensory perception; the energies involved and their relationship to physical health and disease; the effects of behavior; the role of the mind and of mental images, intent, and motivation; and much more. Since there are different types of extrasensory perception, and since all observation is filtered through the percipient’s mind, we must also determine the degree of “observer effect” in clairvoyant investigation, and develop a system of checks and balances, as well as a common vocabulary. These are only a few of the requirements if we are to bring more order and coherence into the whole field, especially as it bears upon our understanding of the human being.

So far, medicine has been concerned with problems of the physical organism, achieving very important results, even though the question of how healing takes place still remains a mystery. Today our ability to deal with hitherto intractable diseases has been enormously enhanced through the development of scientific sensors, which allow the body to be seen from a number of different aspects. Infrared and liquid crystals give a heat color pattern called thermography; the newest medical instrumentation using ultrasound and nuclear magnetic resonance gives us other dimensions and patterns. At a more fundamental level of physical being, we are becoming accustomed to thinking of ourselves in terms of systems, processes, and patterns of energy, rather than of dense materiality.

Sensitives who can observe the interactions of vital energy with emotional and mental processes could remove these interactions from the realm of the purely subjective by acting as human “sensors.” The observations of those gifted with such abilities, however, differ widely as to the reliability of their faculty, as well as in its clarity, precision, and applicability to physical situations. In spite of these problems, we must persist, since the field holds so much promise.

Perhaps the most important conclusion that emerges from a study of the extensions of physical perception, which clairvoyance makes possible, is that the physical brain is not the originator of consciousness, but rather its instrument. Acceptance of this concept would have far-reaching effects upon the way we humans look at ourselves, and thus upon the world we live in.

Up to this point in human evolution, the world of the five senses has been our safe and familiar environment, a school for learning which has seemed to set the boundaries of human experience. Unaware of the possibility of experiencing a world beyond the physical, we have only caught glimpses of its dimensions through the arts or through the witness of mystics, saints, and seers. But now science has also begun to probe some aspects of this vaster world. More and more exotic discoveries are being made and startling theories propounded about the nature of our universe. Since it now seems that a considerable number of people have experienced some portions of the supersensory realm for themselves, should we not make every effort to bring these experiences under serious scrutiny?

It is our hope that the material offered here will be helpful in suggesting some of the principles that govern the subtler dimensions of our world—dimensions we all share in equally, if unknowingly. They are part of that greater whole which comprehends not only the physical earth with all its past history and future possibilities, but also the thoughts and feelings, errors and accomplishments, insights and intuitions of all its inhabitants.

Higher Dimensions of Consciousness

The third aspect or facet of the personal self is the instrument through which the mind finds expression; in Theosophical and esoteric literature this is traditionally called the mental body. As previously mentioned, just as the emotional or astral level has a higher frequency and subtler state of materiality than the etheric, so the mental is finer-grained and faster-moving than the astral. However, it should be remembered that the mental field interpenetrates both the astral and the etheric at every point, and the mental body also conforms to these vehicles in structure. The mental dimension is in constant interplay with other aspects of the personality throughout life, and its energy permeates every experience, even when we are not engaged in intellectual pursuits or even consciously thinking.

The energy which pours into the mental chakras from the inexhaustible reservoir of the universal mental field circulates through the mental chakra system in much the same manner as at the astral and etheric levels. But the mind is more complex than the emotions: it has in fact two primary aspects or functions which make possible the subtlety, originality, and conceptual power of the mind, at the same time that it can lead us into false reasoning and self-delusion. Because of its multifaceted nature, the habits and patterning of the mind can affect the disease process adversely, but it can also be a powerful force for health, growth, and change.

At the level of everyday experience, the mind is the instrument which integrates and interprets the stream of sensory data which flood into us from every side. All these data are processed and evaluated by the brain/mind and applied to our behavior. This aspect of the mind delivers the common sense we all use in the business of daily living, and perceives the relationships between things, people, and events that give these phenomena their context and meaning.

The conceptual or abstract mind cognizes meaning of a higher order: the ideas which give events their significance; the unities which underlie life’s variables; the structure, proportion, balance, harmony, order, and lawfulness of nature; the relationship between human life and the earth, as well as between the individual and mankind. This dimension of the mind is a universal human attribute, even though it may not be developed to the same degree in all of us.

The human mental body is an ovoid like the astral, but it is considerably larger and less dense. Its colors and quality are good indicators of the individual’s interests and mental powers, whether latent or active, for sometimes the capacities we are born with do not mature during life. All this shows up in the mental body, just as the astral aura accurately reveals the emotional life.

Because the mental and emotional fields are so closely interconnected, the mind is colored by emotion, just as the feelings are conditioned by thought. This is a universal characteristic, but when it is unbalanced or out of control the condition may become pathological. However, if the mind is not hampered by emotional stresses, it is a fine and flexible instrument for integrating and assimilating all levels of personal experience: mental, emotional, and physical.

The physical brain, much like a supercomputer, registers, stores, and retrieves what the mind discovers or originates. The view of the mind/brain relationship which emerges from our research is very different from that generated by most psychophysiological theorizing. Far from being a product of brain activity, the distillation of meaning and the interpretation of experience are seen to derive from a deeper level of the self. Such insight is then developed rationally by the mind and related to other knowledge, while the brain, which is the mind’s instrument or physical partner, registers the information. In other words, the mind is dependent upon the brain for physical expression, but it also transcends the brain mechanism and can to some extent compensate for its defects.

The mental body extends about three feet (ninety centimeters) beyond the periphery of the physical body, and interpenetrates both the etheric and the astral bodies. The individual who perceives the “I” more in terms of his thoughts than his feelings usually has a mental body that is brighter and more vital than the average, and of finer texture. When such a person is using the mind, energy moves more swiftly in and out of the mental chakras, and the whole mental body becomes more lively and luminous.

The speed with which the energy moves in and out of the chakras, the luminosity of the colors, and the rhythm and the degree of brightness of the different chakras all indicate the quality of the mental body and the areas of special development.

When there is a harmonious relationship from the mental level through the emotional to the etheric, the flow of energy through the chakras displays a rhythmic and unimpeded pattern. Unfortunately, many human beings are subject to periodic mental or emotional storms and stresses, and these have their effects in the etheric and physical bodies.

The energies at the mental level are discharged at a more rapid rate and with more volatility than the lower energies. In fact, when energy flows actively in and out of the mental body, a field of force springs into being around the individual which affects his environment in direct proportion to the strength of the thought. Thus ideas which are charged with mental power strongly influence other individuals. This may or may not be directly related to the truth of the ideas themselves: grand ideas stand the test of history and contribute to the growth of human culture, but mistaken ideas can dominate large groups of people when these are projected with great force and conviction, as was the case in Nazi Germany.

The transformative power of thought when it is reinforced by conviction is well known. Religious conversion is one example, but on a lesser level, the ability to break long­standing habits, such as smoking, results from the power of the mind to change behavior. We no longer believe the dictum, “I think, therefore I am,” but we realize that what we think strongly affects us, whether as individuals, members of organizations, or citizens of a nation. In fact, national purpose or character is largely dependent upon the way a people thinks of itself.

How are such widespread ideas transmitted? The effect is partly achieved through written argument and speech, but even more through sharing a common vision or worldview based upon a strong mental image. Such a mental image has come to be known as a thought-form. The spread of ideas is achieved through the mind’s ability to construct a powerful and well-defined image within the mental body, and then direct it toward its object with clarity and intensity. This ability to project one’s thoughts clearly is an important factor in successful teaching, as well as in political life. But the ability to create strong thought-forms can also react upon us negatively, for if they become too rigid they can surround and imprison us within a wall of our own making, thus preventing the inrush of new ideas and fresh mental energy. We then become ideologues or fanatics, who reject all but their own interpretations of truth.

Some clairvoyants are able to see the thought-forms within an individual’s mental body. A discussion with the late Phoebe Payne Bendit, who was acknowledged to be a competent and trained clairvoyant, helped to clarify this matter. She recounted the case of a man who came to her claiming that he was possessed by several great musicians who had passed on, and that other clairvoyants had corroborated his claim. But when Phoebe Bendit observed him carefully, she found that these figures were not those long-gone musicians at all, but rather the man’s wish-fulfillment thoughts that he had charged with his own hopes and desires. She warned his family that he was headed toward a dangerous mental illness, and unfortunately this materialized a few months later, when he was diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic and admitted to a mental hospital.

When Mrs. Bendit was asked how she differentiated the patient’s thought-form from an actual astral entity, she replied: “How would you differentiate between a living person and a statue? Isn’t one obviously alive, while the other is not? The same holds true on the astral and mental planes. An actual person, even though dead, has a quality of vitality about him, so that he moves, changes, and responds to what is going on. In contrast, a thought­form is lifeless and static, and its energy comes from the astral and mental fields of the individual who harbors it.”

The great advantage of being able to see thought-forms is that we can become aware of what we are generating, and thus change them to more constructive images. But even if we cannot see them clairvoyantly, when we realize that our thoughts have the ability to affect others directly and that we energize them with our emotions, we begin to feel a degree of responsibility for our thoughts that was previously reserved only for our actions. And indeed we come to acknowledge that thoughts are actions of a kind, in that they affect behavior.

The Effect of Visualization on the Mental Level

The ability to use our minds constructively in order to achieve good health and personal self-transformation is the subject of hundreds of books currently being offered to the public. Most of these suggest methods that can be used with some degree of success, for the mere conviction that one can effect personal change and growth is enough to start the process moving. Because of the interest in various techniques which employ visualization and different forms of relaxation and/or meditation, we conducted an exploratory inquiry into the ways students use some of these techniques.

We discovered that a few members of the group we studied had no ability to perceive a mental image. When they closed their eyes, they were aware of nothing but blankness and darkness. Most of the students, however, were able to hold in their mind’s eyes the object they were asked to visualize, such as the face of a friend or a simple colored geometric figure. When they were asked how they perceived this mental image, most of them said they visualized the object outside themselves, at a distance of about twenty centimeters in front of their eyes, as though they were reading a book. Others reported that they visualized the object inside their heads, usually in the frontal lobes of the brain, although a few said they saw it in the back of the brain in the occipital region. There was also a very small group that said they could not only think of the object but could also perceive it as a picture flashing before their eyes without specific localization.

In most cases the mental image which was formed remained static. Although holding on to such an image may be an excellent exercise in mental concentration, it will have little effect on the mental, astral, and etheric fields unless it is energized and has movement. For example, if a person is emotionally upset and is told to visualize a green disk over the solar plexus area in order to help him calm down, it should be perceived as a green light flowing into his solar plexus and thence harmonizing the whole abdominal region. In other words, if the thought­form is to be effective, it must maintain its dynamics.

In another experiment, DVK was asked to observe the effect on VPN’s* throat chakra as she visualized certain geometrical forms and colors. DVK was not told what symbols were being used, but was merely to observe their effects on this chakra, which was somewhat leaky.

* VPN is Viola Pettit Neal, a teacher of the perennial philosophy and, with Karagulla, author of Through the Curtain. She worked with Karagulla and Kunz in researching the material discussed here. DVK is Dora Van Gelder Kunz.

At first, VPN visualized a deep blue-violet, diamond-shaped pattern a few centimeters in size and localized in front of the throat chakra. DVK reported no effect. The second symbol visualized was a golden diamond-shaped object. DVK reported that the image was speeding up the throat chakra very slightly, but that the effect was more apparent on the astral level than on the etheric, where the symbol did not seem to hit the core of the center. When a silver-blue diamond was visualized, it too affected the astral chakra but not the etheric. The conclusion seemed to be that when visualization is a purely mental exercise, as it was in this case, it does not seem to affect the chakras. On the other hand, this center does respond to the visualization of a symbol which has some significance or inner meaning for the practitioner, as attested by the effective use of visualization in patients.

The Mental Chakras

The chakras within the mental body correspond to those on the astral and etheric levels, processing energy and acting as media of exchange with the universal mental field. Each mental chakra is also closely linked with its higher frequency counterpart on the intuitional or buddhic level. All together they form a closely integrated system which could be imaged as a four-dimensional grid, in which the energies move laterally through each chakra system and also vertically between the different levels. The energy on the mental level moves more swiftly and at a higher frequency than on the emotional, just as the emotional is higher than the etheric.

The energy of the mental field is stepped down as it passes through the chakras, and can in this way have a direct effect on the physical body if it is not blocked at the emotional level, which is sometimes the case.

The frequency of the energy which flows into the chakras depends on the mental development of the individual. If there is a disturbance in one of the mental centers, it will be transmitted to the emotional and etheric levels, but it is more usual for the disturbance to occur at the astral level. An astral disturbance will not only affect the etheric chakra but will also inhibit the energy coming in from the mental level. The whole process is very complex.

When there is a harmonious relationship among the various aspects of the personality, the energy flows from level to level rhythmically and freely. Unfortunately this process is rather rare, since people interrupt the harmony in a variety of ways: through stress, anxiety, mental rigidity and emotional storms, to name only a few. If such conditions persist, the physical body is eventually affected adversely.

As in the astral chakras, the speed with which the energy moves in and out of the vortices, the luminosity of the colors, the rhythm and the brightness of the different centers all

indicate the quality and power of the mind, and the areas of special development or ability.

The Causal Body

Although the causal body was not the subject of our investigations, DVK found it impossible not to refer to it occasionally, since the fundamental reality within every human being is what we call the Self, although it is also known as the Soul or Spirit. The highest vesture of the Self, which is known as buddhi (insight, wisdom, “clear seeing,” or prajna), is termed “causal” because, according to esotericism, it carries the Self’s fundamental intentionality to be, and this is the ultimate cause of our existence.

By whatever name, this is the real, enduring dimension of true being in each of us—that which persists through all the changes and vicissitudes of our life, and gives it meaning and continuity.

This spiritual dimension is the source of all that is best in us, and can exert a powerful influence for growth and self-transformation. According to the doctrine of reincarnation, those fruits of experience which we have transformed into enduring qualities mark the growth or evolution of the individual self. These are retained from life to life within the causal body, which becomes a composite of the highest qualities of the Self: insight, intuition or direct knowing, creativity, intentionality, aspiration to God or the good, and the purest forms of love and compassion. It can be called the true vehicle of self-awareness, if by that we mean universal consciousness focused in the individual self.

Seen clairvoyantly, the causal body is pale and ethereal, with irridescent colors like those in a soap bubble. It was called the augoeides by the Greeks, the luminous radiation of the spiritual Self, of which incarnate life is but the shadow. But it is also termed “causal” because it gathers together the fruits of our long struggles and sacrifices to grow in understanding, and in these lie the true causes of what we are here and now—the seeds of our qualities of mind and heart. At this level, the Self is not constrained by the usual limits of time and space and causality, but is able to experience the universality of life and to perceive meanings and interrelationships which are often hidden from us during physical existence.

The causal body does not disintegrate after death as the astral and mental bodies eventually do, but persists from life to life. In Tibet, tulkus or “incarnations” are said to be saints or teachers who are reborn again and again with access to the same memories and capacities they had before. Although such cases are rare, there is within the causal dimension the distillation of all earthly experience, and because it is ever-present, this record is accessible to one who has the ability to perceive it.

In the case of some of our patients, it was obvious to DVK that the problems she encountered were rooted at levels beyond the physical, the emotional, or even the mental, and she therefore searched for their explanation more deeply, within the causal dimension.

Printed in the   Fall 2025  issue of Quest magazine. 
Citation: Tenzin Gyatso, the Fourteenth Dalai Lama, "Inner Guru, Outer Guru, Secret Guru"   Quest 113:4, pg 10-14

By Tenzin Gyatso, the Fourteenth Dalai Lama 

This interview appeared in the first issue of The Quest, autumn 1988. It was held at the close of annual teachings and initiations in Bodhgaya, India, the place most sacred to Buddhists. It is selected from a book, The Bodhgaya Interviews, edited by Jose Ignacio Cabezón.

His Holiness: At the outset, I would like to express my greetings. I am not staying many days in Bodhgaya, so I have been very busy. At the same time there are many people this year, aren’t there? There is a much bigger gathering this year than last year.

Now the teachings are finished and everyone is departing. Except for our memory, soon there will be nothing left of our days in Bodhgaya. This is the way of human life—time passes. As a Buddhist, one must think not only in terms of this lifetime, but in terms of trillions and trillions of years. To think in this way is also a form of practice. I think this is very important.

At the beginning, we must certainly learn from a teacher or from books. Then it is necessary to apply what we have learned to the new experiences and events we encounter in our daily lives. Now, in the present case, if we consider our departure from Bodhgaya, some people may feel sad. To dwell on this and to think, “Now we are leaving and we shall not see each other any longer” is not a very useful thing to do.

If, however, we contemplate the deeper significance, the implicit lesson in impermanence and change, and the nature of human life, then the experience of departing can be a useful one. It becomes meaningful. Physically we may be departing, but mentally, our memory and certain things we may have experienced in Bodhgaya—these will remain in our minds. The physical part cannot remain with you always. It will remain for a while and then depart. So, you see, all external material things, no matter how important or how beautiful, will eventually depart. But certain things which are related mainly to consciousness, to the inner experience, these, generally speaking, remain always with you.

Question: Your Holiness, how can we separate the essence of Buddhism from Tibetan cultural adaptations?

His Holiness: I think the basic teachings such as the Four Noble Truths and the Two Truths (conventional and ultimate) are the very foundation of Buddhism. These are teachings that are to be found in Indian Buddhism, Japanese Buddhism, Chinese, Thai, Burmese, and also in Tibetan Buddhism. They all have teachings such as the Four Noble Truths—these are basic to all forms of Buddhism. Now the Tantras are not practiced in common. They are practiced only in Tibet, in Japan, and perhaps in Korea. But we can nonetheless consider the Tantric teachings as authentic Buddhism, as the true teachings.

When we perform certain kinds of prayers and rituals in Tibetan Buddhism, in certain minor aspects, there may be Tibetan adaptations. These parts, then, can be dispensed with in the transmission of Buddhism to other cultures. For example, when we perform certain pujas (offering rituals), we use certain musical instruments. We use, for example, the conch shell: this is something we took from India. (In Tibet, there were no conches. But other instruments were common in Tibet.) When you Westerners perform these pujas, these rituals, it is not necessary for you to use these same instruments, you can use your own.

This is just one example of aspects that are local adaptations. In another place with a different culture and different people these things may not be relevant, they may not actually be useful, and that part should change. In the West, for example, there exists the tradition of using song; some Christians, for example, use song as a means of conveying and appreciating spiritual meaning. This is fine: it is useful.

Question: In the teachings there are many things mentioned that are contradicted by Western science. For example, it is claimed that the moon is 100 miles above the earth, etc. Many of our teachers hold these views to be literally true and Westem science to be wrong. Would Your Holiness comment on how we should view these teachings of the Buddha, and on how we should regard our teachers who hold to them literally?

His Holiness: This is a complicated matter. But I believe, and I have expressed this on several occasions, that basically a Buddhist attitude on any subject must be one that accords with the facts. If, upon investigation, you find that there is reason and proof for a point, then you should accept it. That is not to say that there are certain points that are beyond the human powers of deductive reasoning—that is a different matter. But things such as the size or position of the moon and stars, etc., are things that the human mind can come to know. On these matters it is important to accept the facts, the real situation, whatever that may be.

When we investigate certain measurements and descriptions as they exist in our own texts, we find that they do not correspond to reality. In such a case we must accept the reality, and not the literal scriptural explanation. This should be the basic attitude.

If something is contradictory to reasoning, or if it is found to be false after investigation, then that point cannot be accepted. That is the rule, that is the general attitude. For example, if something is directly experienced by the senses, then there is no question, no doubt, that we should accept it.

In the scriptures there are many different cosmological theories expounded. We do believe that there are many billions and billions of worlds, in the same way that Western science accepts there are limitless numbers of galaxies. This is something that is mentioned very clearly in scripture, though the size and shape may not be the same. They may be different.

For example, Mount Meru is mentioned in the scriptures. It is claimed to be the center of the earth. But if it is there, by following the description in scripture of its location, it must be found. At least we must get some indication that it is there, but there is none. So we must take a different interpretation from the literal one.

If there are teachers who still hold to the literal meaning, then that is their own business. There is no need to argue with them. You can see things according to your own interpretation, and they can see things as they see fit.

In any case, these are basically minor matters, aren’t they? The foundation of the teachings: the Four Noble Truths, what they have to say about the nature of life, about the nature of suffering, about the nature of mind—these are basic teachings, these are what is most important, what is relevant to our lives. Whether the world is square or round does not matter as long as it remains a peaceful and good place.

Question: Can Your Holiness comment on the power of a holy place such as Bodhgaya? What makes virtuous activities performed here more powerful and worthy of more merit?

His Holiness: The fact that many holy beings, spiritually advanced practitioners, stay and practice in a certain place makes the atmosphere or environment of that place change. The place gets some imprint from the person.

Then when another person who does not have much experience or spiritual development comes and remains in that place and practices, he/she can obtain certain special kinds of experience, though of course the right type of motivation and certain karmic forces must also be present in the person as contributing factors for such an experience to come about.

According to the Tantric teachings, at important places there are nonhuman beings, like dakinis, who have bodies that are much more subtle than those of humans. When great spiritual practitioners stay in a certain place and perform meditation and rituals there, then that place becomes familiar to beings like dakas and dakinis, so that they may inhabit the place and travel around it. As indications of this, sometimes one may notice an unusual noise or smell that seems to have no particular reason for existing. These are indications that some higher beings, different beings who have more experience, are inhabiting or traveling through that place. This could also act as a factor influencing whether or not a place is considered special.

In addition, in regard to Bodhgaya, we know that the Buddha himself must have chosen this place for a particular reason—this we believe. Due to the power of his prayer, later, when his followers actually come to this place, they may feel something—hence the power of the Buddha’s prayer could also be a factor.

Perhaps we must take human psychological factors into account as well. For example, Mahayana Buddhists feel strongly toward Sakyamuni Buddha, toward Nagarjuna, etc. In my own case, I have a strong feeling towards the Buddha, towards Nagarjuna, Arya Asanga, to all of these great beings. So when you stay at the place where these people were born and remained, then you feel something. If you use this feeling in the right way, that is fine, there is nothing wrong with it.

Question: Could Your Holiness say something about growing open to one’s own inner guru and also something about the absolute guru?

His Holiness: In general, there is said to be an inner guru, an outer guru, and a secret guru. This is explained in different scriptures, and there are some slight differences in the way these concepts are interpreted or explained in Nyingma, Kargyu, Sakya, and Gelug (the four main orders of Tibetan Buddhism). Likewise, there are differences in the way the different sects explain the four types of mandalas. Outer, inner, secret, and the mandala of reality (de kho na nyid).

The internal or inner guru is the innermost subtle consciousness of the guru. Now that innermost subtle consciousness which your guru has is exactly similar to the innermost subtle consciousness you yourself have. What then is the difference between the two? The guru, who is in effect using this subtle consciousness in his practice, is actually experiencing it with awareness, so that the consciousness becomes a form of wisdom.

When we faint or when we are dying, we too experience that subtle consciousness. And although that consciousness is there, although it is present, we are not aware or conscious of it. We do not realize that it is present. So the real guru, the inner guru, is this consciousness that exists within ourselves. It is also the inner protector, the real ultimate refuge. It is the experience of that state that is the real teacher, that is the real protector, that is the real Dharma. Thus there is this inner guru.

Now, you see, the manifestation of that consciousness in the form of a human body we call the external guru.

As for the secret guru, it is the special method or way that brings us to an awareness of that consciousness. This includes breathing meditations, the generation of bliss, and of the inner heat. These we may call the secret guru because it is through these techniques that we come to realize the inner guru. Sometimes this subtle consciousness is called “inner guru,” sometimes it is called the “ultimate guru.” In any case the two terms are synonymous.

According to the sutras, according to the Madhyamika school, “the absolute” refers to sunyata, to emptiness. In the Mahanuttaniyoga Tantras, however, the word “absolute” has two meanings. It can refer either to sunyata itself or to this special type of subtle consciousness (not to the ordinary, vulgar levels of mind, however). For the most part, when these scriptures refer to “the ultimate,” they are referring to the consciousness aspect, but not to ordinary consciousness, to a consciousness we call rigpa, the ultimate, innermost subtle consciousness. Even when the five senses are not active, the subtle consciousness is still there, though it is overpowered by the senses.

You see, all the senses are individual types of consciousness. The eye consciousness has color, shape, and so forth as its object: the ear consciousness perceives sounds, etc. Even though they are all different, having different objects, nonetheless, they are all of the same nature, of the nature of knowing. They may come to know through different means, but they are still of the nature of knowing. This common aspect they have in common we call shes pa, knowing. Now the rigpa, which we can call “awareness,” this innermost subtle consciousness, is also of the nature of “knowing.” It too is a “knower,” just as the eye consciousness is a “knower.” So both the coarser sense consciousnesses and the more subtle rigpa are of the nature of knowing. They are both “knowers.” The coarser types of consciousness come to know something because of the subtle consciousness. The basic nature of knowing thus comes from, or is due to, the existence of the subtle consciousness. Even during moments when the sense organs are very active, if we rely on the instructions of a proper, experienced teacher, we can separate the two experiences: the path of the coarser consciousnesses from the path of the subtle consciousness.

These points, however, are difficult. First of all, the matter being discussed is difficult; add to that the fact that the Dalai Lama’s English is poor, and it makes for an altogether awkward situation. You see, it is actually quite shameful. For quite a few years now I have had to speak with my own English, but it never comes out properly. In fact, sometimes, instead of getting better, it actually declines!

Question: Your Holiness, in what way does an individual consciousness exist? What part of that consciousness is still present after death? And is there a total dissolution of that consciousness when one reaches Buddhahood?

His Holiness: Consciousness will always be present, though a particular consciousness may cease. For example, the particular tactile consciousness that is present within this human body will cease when the body comes to an end. Likewise, consciousnesses that are influenced by ignorance, by anger, or by attachment—these too will cease. Furthermore, all of the coarser levels of consciousness will cease. But the basic, ultimate, innermost subtle consciousness will always remain. It had no beginning, and it will have no end. That consciousness will remain. When we reach Buddhahood, that consciousness becomes enlightened all­knowing. Still, the consciousness will remain an individual thing. For example, the Buddha Sakyamuni’s consciousness and the Buddha Kasyapa’s consciousness are distinct individual things. This individuality of consciousness is not lost upon the attainment of Buddhahood. Still, all of the minds of all Buddhas have the same qualities—in this sense they are similar. They have the same qualities while still preserving their individuality. 

Question: What does Your Holiness think of unilateral nuclear disarmament?

His Holiness: Now, you see, world peace through mental peace is an absolute. It is the ultimate goal. But as for the method, there are many factors that must be taken into consideration. Under a particular set of circumstances, a certain approach may be useful while under other circumstances, another method may be more useful. This is a very complicated issue which compels us to study the situation at a particular point of time. We must take into account the other side’s motivation, etc., so it is a very complex matter.

But we must always keep in mind that all of us want happiness. War, on the other hand, only brings suffering—that is very clear. Even if we are victorious, that victory means sacrificing many people. It means their suffering. Therefore, the important thing is peace. But how do we achieve peace? Is it done through hatred, through extreme competition, through anger? It is obvious that through these means it is impossible to achieve any form of lasting world peace. Hence the only alternative is to achieve world peace through mental peace, through peace of mind. World peace is achieved based only on a sense of brotherhood and sisterhood, on the basis of compassion. The clear, genuine realization of the oneness of all mankind is something important. It is something we definitely need. Wherever I go, I always express these views.

Question: Western monks and nuns sometimes find it difficult wearing robes in the West. We are often stared at and looked upon as being strange. Does your Holiness recommend wearing robes in non-Buddhist countries?

His Holiness: This we must judge according to particular cases and circumstances. If you can remain in robes without disturbing others, then of course it is better to wear robes. In some particular cases, however, this may be difficult.

Basically, as practitioners, we must remain in society. We must be good members of the society in which we live. So if society has a negative attitude towards you, this may be good neither for yourself nor for society. This is the basic position. Now if for this reason, one decides not to wear robes, if it is not suitable, better not to do so under those circumstances. This is all right. If the circumstances should change, then change. Gradually the society itself may change its attitudes. The West is a society in which Buddhism has never flourished, and this is changing. I think that, compared to thirty years ago, today when monks travel on an international air carrier, they are recognized as monks. So, you see, time goes on, and gradually things will change. The important thing is not what we wear but our behavior in our everyday lives.

Thank you very much. Today there is not much time, but I am happy to have shared these few moments with you. All of us have come from different parts of the world and we may even have different faiths, but we all have the same human mind. Isn’t that so? When it comes down to the level of basic human qualities we are the same, there are no differences. On a superficial level, however, there are many, many differences. So what we need to do is go to a deeper level. There we find that we are all human brothers and sisters. No barriers exist for us. Everyone wants happiness and does not want suffering, and everyone has the right to achieve permanent happiness. So we must share each other’s suffering and help each other. If we cannot help others, at least we must not harm them. That is the main principle. Whether we believe in the next life or not does not matter. Whether we believe in God or not doesn’t matter. But one thing that does matter very much is that we live peacefully, calmly, with a real sense of brotherhood and sisterhood. This is the way to achieve true world peace, or if not world peace, then at least a peaceful community. That is important, very useful, and very helpful. Thank you very much.

His Holiness the Dalai Lama is recognized as the fourteenth incarnation in the line of Dalai Lamas, and is the head of the Tibetan government-in-exile in Dharamsala, India. He is known the world over as a great spiritual teacher and tireless worker for peace.

Dalai Lama, excerpts from Answers: Discussions with Western Buddhists, edited by José Ignacio Cabezón. Copyright © 2001 by José Ignacio Cabezón. Reprinted by arrangement with The Permissions Company, LLC on behalf of Shambhala Publications Inc., Boulder, Colorado, www.shambhala.com.

VOLUME 113, NUMBER 4
CONTENTS

Inner Guru, Outer Guru, Secret Guru
Tenzin Gyatso, the Fourteenth Dalai Lama

The Chakras and the Human Energy Fields
Shafica Karagulla and Dora van Gelder Kunz

The Mill and the Millpond: A Twenty-Year Conversation with J. Krishnamurti
Ravi Ravindra

Who Are the Masters? An Interview with Joy Mills
Richard Smoley

The Cant about "Masters": Koot Hoomi's Last Letter to Annie Besant

The Rainbow Body: How the Western Chakra System Came to Be
Kurt Leland 

H.P.Blavatsky: The Sphinx of the Nineteeth Century
Franz Hartmann

From the Editor's Desk

Viewpoint; A Nineteenth-Century State of Mind
Douglas Keene

Israelite Religion: From Tribal Beginnings to Scribal Legacy
Karel van der Toorn
New Haven, Conn.: Yale University Press, 2025. xv + 410 pp., hardcover, $40.

The Bible as seen by scholars and the Bible as seen by the public are two different things.

To see why, we can look into the index of this new book by a professor at the University of Amsterdam. It is a survey of the religion of ancient Israel from 1200 to 200 BC.

Popular belief, following the Bible, holds that Moses was a historical figure who led a group of Hebrew slaves out of Egypt c.1300 BC. But Israelite Religion portrays Moses as a shadowy, possibly mythic figure: the index has no listing for “Moses” per se but for “the Moses tradition.” Indeed van der Toorn says that the “exodus tradition” was unknown to many Israelites until comparatively late.

Van der Toorn begins his history of Israelite religion at the beginning of the Iron Age in Palestine (c.1200 BC). Before that, he indicates, little is known that is historically reliable. He argues that the Exodus from Egypt—a focal point of today’s Judaism—did not take place as the Bible says: “The careful analysis of the biblical sources shows that the exodus-and-conquest model was originally developed in the Northern Kingdom, as a national narrative to provide the different population groups with a putative common history.” (“The Northern Kingdom” refers to the two kingdoms in the Palestine of the early first millennium BC: Israel in the north, and Judah in the south.)

These details reflect the thrust of van der Toorn’s book. Instead of the coherent (if sometimes contradictory) biblical narrative of the patriarchs, bondage in Egypt, and liberation under the charismatic figure of Moses, he portrays Israel as a nation that came together around 1200 BC as a merger of different groups “that were ethnically mixed . . . They became Israelites, over the course of generations, in the Palestinian highlands” (emphasis van der Toorn’s). In such a context, the historical Moses becomes much more shadowy—and may have been fictional.

The Bible says that the Israelites were united by the worship of a desert deity called YHWH (pronounced, according to van der Toorn, as “Yaho”). But even this is mysterious. As he indicates, the very name “Israel” indicates that this nation originally worshipped the Canaanite god El, who was originally quite distinct from YHWH: the Israelites equated the two only later. The only thing known about YHWH is that he originated in Edom, as the earliest biblical references show. Presumably wandering shepherds from Edom and Midian (to the southeast of Palestine) brought their worship of YHWH with them into the Palestinian highlands, and other peoples joined them.

This reductionistic view presents its own difficulties. Van der Toorn describes the coalescence of a nation called Israel that came to worship Yahweh instead of El, although he does not explain how. This process is inexplicable unless we postulate a charismatic figure—like a Moses—who united these peoples in veneration of YHWH. It seems more likely that the Exodus narrative, including some of its main characters, is based on some core facts, even if they were heavily elaborated later.

These early Israelites were united only by allegiance to YHWH, which was not monotheistic in the sense understood today. The early Israelites did not necessarily deny the existence of other gods, as worshipped by neighboring peoples—only that YHWH was the god of Israel. Many Israelites also worshipped other Canaanite gods, and at least until the sixth century BC, there was a common belief that YHWH had a female consort, usually known as Asherah. The prophets’ relentless call that YHWH alone was to be revered shows the allure of these other gods.

In short, van der Toorn, like most mainstream scholars, depicts Israelite religion as the result of a long process of evolution and development. In its early forms it did not resemble today’s Judaism. Indeed van der Toorn argues that the term “Judaism” cannot even be applied to the religion of the Jews until around 200 BC. The Torah was unknown even to priests and kings until around 620 BC, when the priest Hilkiah “discovered” a previously unknown scroll of law attributed to Moses, which was read to King Josiah of Judah (2 Kings 22:8‒13). Scholars generally agree that this “discovery” was actually a pious fiction written by Hilkiah and his associates that formed the core of the biblical book of Deuteronomy.

Other features that we now consider essential to Judaism—circumcision, Sabbath observance, abstinence from pork—did not become standard Jewish practice until the second century BC. (For more on this issue, see The Origins of Judaism: An Archaeological-Historical Reappraisal, by Yonatan Adler.)

The story is far more detailed and intricate than I can go into here, but overall van der Toorn deftly and accurately summarizes current scholarly views of the religion of ancient Israel. This book is, as it says, intended for scholars and students. As such, it presupposes some knowledge of the subject: someone coming into it cold may find it rather difficult. Some background reading—such as my book How God Became God: What Scholars Are Really Saying about God and the Bible—would be useful. But as a concise and readable digest of an enormous amount of textual and archaeological evidence, Israelite Religion is not only valuable but will probably serve as a standard work for some time to come.

Richard Smoley